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Old 02-05-2001, 01:17 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by cloud_ds:
Oh and another things, I caught one of you people here cheating your flipping a$$ off big time, shooting people through vents, and there is no way you can do it, there is NO way around it, no way, listen, no way, and yet he killed em.
Come on Clod, the vents in Assualt are easy to shoot through and most of the map involves this! I remember your beautifully drawn diagrams at the time, and they failed to include sound. When you go up the ladder into the Hossie area in those tunnels you make a noise (even if you use the crouchy method you still make some noise on the ladder). If i heard that i would fire into the vent.

Quote:
running towards a corner
This is just bad play. What amazes me is that these players get shot as they round the corner and they cry "wallhack". For those that realise that they just played badly, they then yell "camper!" D'oh! DM players usually. If i hear footsteps with no dot on the radar i hide behind something.

I have only ever been suspicious of 2 players in CS (not including bunny-hopping cheats). In terms of proving this, one of them has admitted to changing their CS setup regarding skins, so he might have changed some textures as well (who knows). But can i PROVE it. Not without seeing his machines, no. I did have a plan with a custom map that would highlight cheats, but i am too lazy to create it!

So Clod, ease off mate. There are players out there who are better than you. Sorry mate, but there are. There are players out there who are worse then you. Sorry players, but it is true. There are those who fall nto the middle ground, but have an attitude of acting like idiots. I am afraid that is life.
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Old 02-05-2001, 03:00 PM   #42
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Its easy enough to shoot your mouth off calling people cheaters , than it is to swallow your pride and accept "fck me, people are actually BETTER than me".

Im sorry to say this cloud, but up until lately, I thought you were ok, but these past threads, you've really seemed to show your true colours.


Lets just hope its a severe case of tension on your part. If it is, leave it out the msgboard. If not, lets hope you dont plan to have a long friendship with some of these people. my guess is, you've already burned a few bridges!

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[ 02 May 2001: Message edited by: Colio ]
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Old 02-05-2001, 03:33 PM   #43
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I know it is hard to accept m8 - being l337 - whenever I die I just think sh1t must be running low on juice and go get summit to eat - i can't be arsed calling people cheats. If they do then hey who gives a flying f*** - I enjot playing - they only cheating themselves thinking they are good when they is just pathetic m8.

Just ignore calling people cheats or stirring it - I feel sorry for you m8 - that every1 seems to be ganging up on you because you are french but it just that you do not express your opinions in a very good manner - you forcing them instead of putting them forward to discussion.

Me off to get some more food - mmmmmmmmmm ice-cream
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Old 02-05-2001, 11:51 PM   #44
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Newbie, you dont make a sound in the vent if you Jump into it, Or didnt you consider it?
Also guns dont stick through the vent, sometime they do but not when looking down it.
also, e could have not used BC or RW because the Middle vent is in the ceiling and and it like shooting a flat wall.
Yes, He awped people first time each shot.

And no Im not on about blinD.
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Old 03-05-2001, 12:21 AM   #45
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Here we go again, Newbie is an insult is it? By virtue of the fact that i am probably older than you that makes you a Newbie at everyhting? No, of course not, that would be unfair to your intellect, so treat other people with the same respect. Oh and stop eating horses. God i hate the french.

I seem to remember your diagram at the time involving the middle ladder. I could be wrong,but there you go. That does make noise. If it wasn't that place then, i apologise, i am wrong.

However i have jumped into that vent loads of times and been killed by everything. I think someone got me with a spoon once.
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Old 03-05-2001, 02:02 AM   #46
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... and did you concider that people like me sit and watch the camera screen for you to jump in, stroll upto the window and fire ?

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Old 03-05-2001, 01:19 PM   #47
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In fact if you are really l33t (so i have never tried this). You can look at the camera screen and turn to face the vent entrance on the roof. If you have a T on the ladder at the end of the vent (as there often is) you can use him as a reference point. You can then watch them jump in and fire without moving.

Anyway maybe l33tness is cheating. Wasn't so long ago that people called lpbs cheats after all!
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Old 03-05-2001, 01:35 PM   #48
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here is a snipet of my recent game of CS...

Just as HoMeR heres the bomb being planted he starts to rush to see if he can defuse it. on his way there he JUST sees someones arm pop round a corner ..
SO homer throws a HE BOOOOOOM T goes down..
Homer is now on a high and wants to Disarm the bomb as he continues to Rush he gets done LOL ahh well
anyway when i was [DEAD] all i got was OHH HOmer u ****** u cheat like ****** u ******* u are such a **** *** *** **** * * * * * * * * ********** * * * * ** ******* ** * * ** * * * ... U USE WALLHACK Blah blah blah
.....Sighhhhhhh
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Old 04-05-2001, 05:53 PM   #49
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guys, I didnt get killed at the entrance of the vent, I did consider it, so by your terms i must be leet.
Also, no shox you cant look at the camera and kill someone in the second vent, oh sorry shox, you must have a cheat that makes you have cameras in the Second vent, you said it yourself, cameras.

I aint going say it again, In the SECOND VENT!
And I thought you Knew that it was impossible to awp someone that you couldnt see, well looks like I MUST be wrong.

you cant shoot someone first time with an awp in the Second vent on the Map cs_assault

you cant shoot someone first time with an awp in the Second vent on the Map cs_assault

get it?

Not by sound, Or cameras, Or Battlecom, only wallhack/spiked skins, if you think im wront then you obviously need to go check it.
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Old 04-05-2001, 06:37 PM   #50
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u can be damn lucky and do it tho, , i remeber the incident in question , and ure screenshots and the diagram , and the person u talking about was looking out of the window , in front of the camera's and shooting ppl thru the ceiling as they entered the second vent. so consider this scenerio.... someone like me playing the game at about 1000 decibels i can hear every ladder every footstep etc, christ i can hear ppl empty *click click* from half way across a map, hehe hence me moving in for the kill so quick , now on assault, to get into the second vent, u need to climb that little ladder into it, which most definatly does make a noise, a noise the player could have easily heard, now he either caps stright thru the ladder wen he hears the steps or waits 1 or 2 seconds and fires thru the celing , cos u always travel the same speed crouched remember so its easy to time it with a little practice. and lets also be honet the awp at that range just tends to hit ppl no matter where u aim it

now then cloud before u post back with ome rant and abuse about me, read it all again , im not being insulting to u, im not wanting any back . i am simply stating that there are many possiblitys , yes including cheating, but from wot i saw of the screenies i think it just as likely that he wasnt, and ill also say that i could take screenies , demo's of any player from gameon , and in certain situations it may LOOK like they cheating as well, including u cloud (read carefully, i AM NOT saying i think u cheat) we all be accused of cheating , many times most likely, its the reason i sttopped playing CS myself, not cos of the cheats , they much much much less common then ppl seem to think, but because of the constant accusation of cheating, anyone here that ever played CS with me, knows i was a flukey little bugger , ide just grab mah AK-47 and HE and just manage to know where ppl were from experience of the maps, i have never ever cheated and never will , but i bet it looked like a had everything running sometimes with mah 1000 yard AK headshots .

as ive stated before for many of the cheats running in the last 6-12 months it has been poible to tell wether the "accued cheater" is DEFINATLY NOT cheating , as u need to run most (all the nasty cheats anyway, wall hacks, spikes etc) thru a proxy, and by checking the client IP port u can see wether they are NOT running a proxy (therefore not cheating cos it would be much higher) u cant say they are cheating if they are running a proxy , as many of us do in normal pc use, (win proxy, win gate, ICS etc to name a few) but most are easy to pot anyway, but if i was to ban everybody that looks suspicious , like i say , there would be no one playing at all, cos we all just had the feeling the NME were behind that door and capped em thru it before, ussually to the sound of "CHEATER, WALL HAX0R", etc etc ,
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Old 04-05-2001, 06:40 PM   #51
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p.s

oh yer , can we have a few less flames in this thread plz,(aimed at EVERYBODY) its not a battering/bitchin'/general abuse forum, so lets just get along and discuss thing in a freindly adult way , thank u
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Old 04-05-2001, 07:02 PM   #52
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Hmm, this is getting odd.

When i mentioned that the ladder in the middle makes noise (which it very definitely does no matter how you get on it). I was told that :-
Quote:

Newbie, you dont make a sound in the vent if you Jump into it, Or didnt you consider it?


The only way you are going to jump INTO a vent on assualt is from the roof outside. Now when it is discussed that you can view the camera and turn to fire at the roof entrance end:-

Quote:

i didnt get killed at the entrance of the vent

and
Quote:

you cant shoot someone first time with an awp in the Second vent on the Map cs_assault

you cant shoot someone first time with an awp in the Second vent on the Map cs_assault


(i thought it worth showing the originators double emphasis)

The stories are inconsistent The person was either jumping into the vent or climbing the middle ladder. I don't think you can jump up over the middle ladder (i think you land at the top of the ladder) and as you go up that ladder it makes a noise.

Now the possible explanations have been given for both cases. Since the originator's story is now becoming inconsistent i don't think that this is a case of cheating. Perhaps this person is l337 at other maps, but Assault is not one of them.

[ 04 May 2001: Message edited by: Flashhart ]
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Old 04-05-2001, 09:45 PM   #53
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Scuse me? What screenies? It was a Demo.


See, another Example of......well I dont want to argue with you Fish your a decent guy but, if your saying I had Screenshots of this incident I didnt.
Only a Demo.

And He yeah he did awp me in the vent, numerous times.

but what about in the firstvent on the roof, when you jump down instead of making a noise, he got me then? how, As soon as I hit the vent floor it was BOOM!
and he kept getting people.
If only I had the demo, anyway it probably wouldnt work it was beta, 7.1 I think.
Or 6 summet.
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Old 04-05-2001, 09:48 PM   #54
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Also, Its not just the "one" time Flashhart, It was about, 6 times before I left to get Rash0r.
I showed a few people the demo, About 5 but the only ones I can remeber giving it to was Rasher and KM, and they both agreed at the time it was very strange.
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Old 04-05-2001, 10:22 PM   #55
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I never really bothered with this post until now, due to lazyness, or lack of wanting to read 40+ posts. But I'm bored, and it seemed somthing was happening to make you guys post in such large numbers, so I thorght I'd check it out.
So, I've read through all of your posts, some are spam, some make some interesting points. I hope that my young mind can make some sense of things without resorting to technicalities on cloud's story, or on general abuse.
So, here goes:

In the past I've been accused of cheating...

Many a time, on many a server, both with and without the [=VvV=] tag on. Quite a few of the times, I can fully understand how the person accusing me could think I'm cheating. I've either got a really flukey wall/vent shot and I remember once throwing a grenade to get rid of it, and hiting someone as they've run round a corner. Now, I don't cheat. I've never seen a cheat in action on my or another machine. I've never used one and I don't have a clue how to get one. I can also say the same for all members of [=VvV=]. Speaking of [=VvV=], we've recieved much grief from many people about us cheating. And I can see why. Whenever [=VvV=] play a clan game, and we thrash our enemy, I always feel a little sorry for how they're feeling.

In some ways what cloud says is true. As with any game, CS players do generally take alot of pride in the way they play. And yes, often they do play for statistics or ratings. In the simplest form, there is nothing wrong with this. The problem occurs when people are beaten, and not wanting to question their own skill level, they instead accuse others of not playing to the rules, as it is an easier way out....

In the past I've wanted to accuse others of cheating....

Continuing with my example above. I can fully understand why people accuse others. I remember getting a thrashing from [VETS] when [=VvV=] were a young team. I was upset. I was upset that my hours of CS playing and practising wern't good enough on that occasion. In the heat of the moment I said some things I didn't mean and got very frustrated.

Then I considered things, and in my heart of hearts, I knew [VETS] didn't cheat. So, I left it.

I believe that when someone thinks cheating is occuring, they can often find situations where is seems possible that cheating is occuring.
As FusioN said earlier, CS is a VERY random game. Guns fire randomly, walls can be passed, and lag/choke/packet loss can make things seem very odd to the player on occcasions. Think about how much ammo you get given to the ammount of ammo required to kill. I believe it is this ratio that causes so many 'odd' deaths in CS.
This arrises to the paranoia that seems evident around the CS community recently.
As soon as you start out-performing a player, you get accused of cheating. It's a problem that has no real solution apart from common sense, and people thinking before they speak.

If someone wants to cheat, they can...

Think about this. If someone REALLY wants to cheat, they can. Just as if a burgler REALLY wants to break into your house, no ammount of security system is gonna stop him.
Cheating does happen in Counter-Strike. There's no doubt about it. However, I believe the actual ammount of cheating is far far lower than what people imagine it to be. I imagine it's no more than people exploiting bugs in other games.

But at the end of the day, it's a game. CS means nothing, it doesn't effect our everyday lives (much), and you hardly ever meet the people you play with online. So what's the problem? Just forget about it.
If someone chooses to cheat the system, to get a feeling of winning, they that's their personal choice. When I get accused of cheating, I try to take it as a compliment, as it is kinda implying that I'm playing well. If someone has lower moral standards than you, let it pass, don't ruin your own game by spending it accusing others, as it's not normally looked on well.

About the individual...

I do sort of agree with cloud here. It is true to say, that on most public servers, people care only about themselves. Argue it as much as you want, but it's true.
This is probably why Counter-Strike is so sucsessful.
It's managed to find a hole in the market, where a) Players can play for themselves, as mercenaries, without any lasting consiquences. and b) The game can be adapted so teams playing together can do well.
I'll be honest here. When I play on public servers, I play for myself. I play for the simple feeling that coming top is good and frags matter. (In clan games it's a different, but that's another story). But hey, sue me. Counter-Strike is classed as entertainment, and the way I recieve that entertainment is by doing well in the game.
Unlike Tribes2, Counter-Strike has no forced teamplay, which gives players alot more scope to treat is like a DeathMatch game. Also, Counter-Stike is simply scored on Frags/Deaths, and as that is the way the game is scored, that's what I play it to achieve.
I don't think any game will ever master the art of public online teamplay. People all think differently, and most of the time, cannot be bothered with the responsibility of other players.

A Case of Respect?...

I do think a reason why alot of the cheat accusations occur is that people don't have any respect for others on the server. Unless it's someone I know from Lans/Go Community/VvV I dont really have a clue about their background, and to be honest, I dont care.
I'll leave this one open to discussion, but I just believe this may be a reason...

Grow Up!

At the end of the day, it's a game. It's a game that is supposed to be fun. Now, I know you're gonna come back with an arguement somthing like "but cheaters spoil the fun" but for goodness sake grow up. Forget about cheaters, or cheating. It's not your responsibility so leave it.

Also, I was a bit disturbed to hear some of the name calling that has occured in this post and in IRC. I think it's childish, and not necessary.
I don't mean to lecture anyone here, as I'm certainly not a role model But some of the stuff (including what could be classed as racsism) is just not necessary.
I've built relationships at gameon. Alot of you I regard to be real friends. I spend a worrying ammount of time in this community and I don't really want it to turn into a spamming/argument board.
If you wish to continue this, I sujest you do it privatly, otherwise more and more people will become involved, and the snowball will continue to roll.
Just leave it. Forget about it. Move on.

I'll see you on the battlefield. Hopefully as Friends and not Enemies.

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Old 04-05-2001, 11:09 PM   #56
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ive still got all the demos's if u want them to veiw again cloud, and my apologies, the screenshots i refered to was the screenies I took from the demo, to see where he shot thru the ceiling/vent wall, so as to work out easier the angle of fire, and therefore, how long after the victim stepped into the tunnel he shot. as i have said before i took EVERY incident of a accusation of cheating(whilst an admin) seriously and investigated every screenshot and demo very carefully, i dont want a cheater in aserver any more then anyone else, but believe me , AT LEAST 90 % of all accusations of cheating can be quashed simply by checking the client IP port. im my few months of admining for GameOn i banned a few ppl for cheating , but not untill i watched em for several hours usually , and carried out the standard few in-game checks and log files checks, and also joing the ALLEDGED "cheaters" team and shadowing him as well. or having UNDEBATABLE proof, ie a screenshot of him as a chicken (as an example) or something, even then closely looking for alterationms in the screenie and created/modified date stamps etc. i have to say tho after seeing the screenies and demo's of the incident in question cloud, there is lots of room for debate wether he was cheating or not, i for one say he wasnt, as tehre are several ways to pull off wot he did, round after round even. now i wasnt in the game so therefore couldnt check his IP so there is of course room for "so he MITE have been cheating" specially as the demo was only a few seconds long. but he DEFINATLY wasnt using headshot script cos u can see from the demo that the weapon is not "springing" into postion, nor is it floowing the drop of the corpse, so it leaves 2 POSSIBILITIES (assuming he was cheating, which i seriously doubt) spiked models , or a wall hack , (both needing a proxy to run as it happens, so its a shame i wasnt in game at the time , to knock this accusation straight on the head) so consider 2 thing assuming he was using one or both, i could think of many better places to stand in the get kills then where he was, ie at the wall facing the ct spawn and pick em off as they run towards the building, also at the end of the first vent to cap anyone as they entered the first vent. also, at least in the demos i had, he shot everyone in the second vent , never the first, which also seemed strange as according to u he KNEW u was there. just a couple of points to think about.
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Old 04-05-2001, 11:24 PM   #57
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if anyones interested to see em , these are the 4 demos in question , u will however need to install an OLDER version of HL(1101 patch)and cs on ure system to watch them , so prob aint much good to most ppl

http://www.btinternet.com/~fishwick_...jovencheat.zip
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Old 05-05-2001, 12:10 AM   #58
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Don`t worry lads i`m already polishing the cuffs
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Old 05-05-2001, 12:39 AM   #59
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SNIP

oops

wrong thread, must be tired LOL!

err ill say sumthing, lets see, cheaters suck yeh !

gotta go download the CD crak for tomb raider, a few warez games and a hack for team fortress, oopss, musnt think out loud

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Old 05-05-2001, 12:42 AM   #60
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think u posted on the wrong thread losty m8
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